Generic Eberron?
Posted by Keith Baker in UncategorizedAug 11th, 2010 | 34 responsesSo here’s a question for folks. There’s lots of subjects I’d like to cover in Eberron, but I don’t know if there’s ever going to be an opportunity to do it officially. It would certainly be possible to use a site such as Kickstarter to fund a small sourcebook or four. The question is which people would rather see: the development of a completely new world from scratch, or the exploration of Eberron in a “generic” fashion.
What do I mean by “Generic”? Well, I’d love to write about the Dhakaani… to present player options for Goblin characters, look at culture, and such. I’ve pitched the idea to DDI & Dragon in the past, but it’s never been picked up. On my own, I can’t write about the Dhakaani… which sadly means I can’t legitimately pick up on things like Don Basingthwaite’s linguistic work and such. But I could certainly do something about “Imperial Goblins” – a setting-neutral thing which happens to be easily adaptable to Eberron. I can’t use the Sharaat’khesh by name, but I could certainly have Goblin assassins.
So… would you rather have the white box which you can complete by adding Eberron detail yourself? Or something that has the full depth of the world from the start, even though it’s an entirely different world?
34 Responses to “Generic Eberron?”
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Well ideally I’d LOVE to see more material in DDI via Dungeon & Dragon. I can’t get enough of the setting specific material there, so I guess I’m coming out in the generic Eberron camp.
Hmmn, I’m torn. On one hand, I love Eberron, its such a fantastic setting and I’d always like to have more material on it, even of the generic variety. On the other hand though, I’d like to see what other awesome settings you might be working on as well. I’ll sit on the fence for a while. Heh.
Can you do both or would working on either project preclude the other?
Sean
@Jason: So would I – like Jeff Lasala’s fine recent work on Taer Lian Doresh. And I expect there to be more material on DDI. I just don’t expect the pace to pick up – and it may not cover the topics I’d like to cover, or cover them in the depth I’d like to get into. The problem with that, of course, is that if I’m writing “generic” there’s a limit to how much depth I CAN get into. I can write about a kingdom of monsters ruled by hags, and it’s easy enough to say “Oh, I can use this for Droaam” – but I can’t go into specific detail about the histories of the Daughters of Sora Kell as they relate to specific people and events within Eberron material. And I don’t want to feel like I’m ripping off WotC by slipping off the narrow edge of things, so it’s not like I’d write about “The Nieces of Kora Sell”. But I could have a hag-ruled nation of monsters, explore some monster cultures that haven’t been addressed in Eberron but could be. For example, a lycanthrope society could then be dropped in for the Dark Pack, while a changeling culture could be used for Lost or the Gray Tide. But again, it couldn’t be TOO close.
Let me make absolutely clear that I hope WotC will decide to do more Eberron material. I’d like to see official material on the Dhakaani, and I think Don’s books show the interest in this subject. I’d love to do more with the Zil, the Valenar, or Droaam. I’d like to explore the planes. I just don’t know if those things are going to happen.
Meanwhile, if I do a different world, it will be a completely different world. The “generic” would explore things that would be easy to add into Eberron. In a new setting I might explore monstrous societies, but I wouldn’t necessarily have a kingdom ruled by hags… and while I’d do something interesting with goblins, it wouldn’t be the same.
@Sean – I could do both; it’s just a question of time. Currently, time is not my friend.
Well, I would like a new Eberron sourcebook every month or two, but that’s pretty unlikely.
While I would likely take a look at any generic Eberron focused product, I can’t say for certain I would use it. Especially if it had Mechanical things (except maybe monsters) in it, which can’t be used in the DDI tools which I am slave to.
I think I’d be more interested in a new Keith Baker setting or something like that – one with unique themes, – one that solely uses the base D&D assumptions on rules, races and classes etc, so I can use the tools I pay for for D&D (and of course will attract other gamers from pathfinder etc)
Depends on what that new world would be…
Like Bill, I’m torn and would be happy with either one. I suppose I might lean 60/40 towards a new setting, simply because there’s tons of Eberron material I haven’t used yet. However, I’m always greedy for more, so I’m torn.
However, the more I think about it, the more exciting a new world might be (or even a “mini-world” that could be easily dropped into another setting rather than an entire planet). So, let’s say I’m 75/25 in favor of a new setting if that’s wishy-washy enough of an answer.
Well, I love Eberron. I would LOVE to see more for that setting, but a new, Keith Baker world is pretty exciting too. Would there be a chance to see stat blocks broken out in 4e and Pathfinder? While I have not done 3.5e since 4e came out, I still have a TON of older books, and keep thinking I will go back and use those books.
@Rifter – It’s an interesting question. If we’re talking about something fairly significant (a short pdf/book as opposed to a few pages on the sight), then doing multiple systems is a significant increase in work. On the other hand, if I decide to begin an entirely new setting, it could be any system – 4E, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, even Over The Edge. If I am talking about PDF, the thing might be to use Kickstarter and let people vote with their dollars. Essentially, the thought is to say “If you’d buy this book I will write it” – so I could offer it in the different formats and see which people are interested in.
Again, this all presumes the idea of putting together a professional-grade PDF and/or POD product. I’m still planning to post smaller things here on HDWT as time permits, and if I do start up a new setting, I’ll certainly be testing ideas out here as I work on it.
I’d love to know more about your vision of Eberron but also a new Keith’s world sounds like an amazing thing… Mmm… a difficult choice. Maybe both? XDDD I know, I know… time’s a bitch. So, if I had to make the choice, I’d say Eberron… (I love it!)
My first choice would be full-fledged Eberron material, but since that’s not possible I’d love to see what you come up with in a completely new world. My preference would be for fluff over crunch, both because then there’s no need to worry about which systems to provide stats for and because I’m just more interested in the former.
It does seem like fluff-heavy material makes the most sense given the diversity of systems out there. I could see producing a pure-fluff book and then a bunch of supplemental “stats for this in System X” add-ons… which could potentially be subcontracted to interested people who specialize in a particular system, thus helping to deal with the time issue.
I’m completely for a new setting. Fluff heavy as you mentioned, system independent. The reason being, like I said in the Hyatt lobby, I subscribe to the True Fan business model. Let all of us Bossy fans throw money at you and have you do what you love, create content. It warms my heart every time I see Hellcow dropping the thought provoking material in those scattered nooks of the internet, but then I realize it’s not generating any money for the right person and I get a little sad. I know another setting, from scratch, independent of the mages of the shore, is a tall order, but I seriously think that with the patron system gaining momentum, it’s the right move.
I’d like more eberron stuff. I can’t understand why WotC is’nt making money with our love for everything Bossy…
For the proposal, I like the new world, with eberron touches. Lots of generic stuff that could fit right in Eberron, especially if it has a theme of “alternate reality”
This is coming out of left field, but I do have a suggestion/request. As an entrepreneur and poster child for A.D.D. I gravitate toward doing something Different with each venture; this could mean tackling a question that no one else is answering, but it can also mean answering an old question in a brand new way. The best projects allow you to do both.
So when you posed this question I got to thinking about what I strongly desire – as a player – to improve my own particular role playing experience. What I’d like to buy is a gaming aid that ups my depth of role playing and how well I can assume the persona of the character I’m playing. Each gaming aid could take the form of a PDF that might focus on a race or a class and provide:
- Cultural/professional information. What things might my Genasi find funny? As a Swordmage, how would I behave in a tavern?
- Common personality traits and idiosyncrasies. Does my Gnome make self deprecating jokes about his stature? Does he poke fun at how large and clumsy his other party members are? If I see fire, does my Watersoul Genasi start to sweat nervously?
- Example phrases for different situations including diplomacy, socializing, combat. Anything from crude humor to battle cries.
- Religious and historical background of relevance to the particular race or class. This is setting-specific. I.E., a Swordmage in Eberron might have a different take on how his profession came into existence compared to a Swordmage in 4e FR?
- Perhaps some character sketches to help remind people how they appear to others.
- Maybe some assistance on accents and speech patterns, although that’s hard to do in print.
If you could go beyond the PDF and have some/all of this content on a deck of playing cards, that would be pretty awesome. I can envision a nicely designed card titled “Swordmage: Battle Cries” for example. Another “Genasi (Watersoul): Background” with some background information and perhaps some fluff dialogue that could be used to describe what a Watersoul is to a commoner/npc.
Coffee consumed! Back to work!
@Sean – This is certainly the sort of thing that interests me. Back when Eberron first came out, i wanted to write a Dragonshard on each of the Five Nations that covered exactly this sort of detail… but the Five Nations sourcebook was already in development and WotC didn’t want confusion. So it’s certainly the sort of detail I’d like to include in future work.
While I understand the need to keep source material that you don’t own separate from published material that you are selling, I think that there is a space that needs to be filled.
If you feel comfortable only with building generic supplements for sale I think they could be complemented with small free web commentary/adaptation/enhancements that would allowably tie the material in the generic supplement into Eberron.
You said “but I can’t go into specific detail about the histories of the Daughters of Sora Kell as they relate to specific people and events within Eberron material” so the generic material might talk about the main characters without naming them specifically, and then the web notes might make the identities explicit.
I know this may seem an end run around the guidelines, but I still think there’s a dearth of good Eberron material coming out, and with the advent of Dark Sun that will only get more pronounced.
It’s a shame that it’s the ‘fluff’ that I need, and it’s the ‘fluff’ that you are constrained from publishing.
But you could make web docs that indicate how the generic material would be adapted for other settings.
I rely on the ‘Shards more than on the sourcebooks, in practice. More material like that would be more useful to me.
I could see the broad strokes being painted in the generic material (which I’d pay for) and then the campaign-specific details worked in by yourself (or others) on the web, as a free ‘enhancement’.
My ideal, totally-unrealistic wild imagining would have Eberron become an official Pathfinder setting, with you safely ensconced at Paizo creating all-new sanctioned material for which you’re paid handsomely.
Short of that, generic fluff with an “Eberron-y” feel would have to suffice.
Keith,
I tend to design my own worlds. A book for generics sounds like a great idea. Give a description and background then some ideas of where and how this particular area or nation can be dropped into different campaigns. This way you can please both the Eberron only club and the others who do our own things.
Hey Keith,
This may be a good deal more niche than would be worth your while, but if it is one of the topics you had yet wanted to explore, I would love to see a Seas of type book.
One advantage I think it would have over other Eberron topics is that since that portion of the setting was never really mentioned or detailed very much at all, you could pretty much completely sidestep the issue of stepping on copyrighted toes. Everyone would still know that it was implicitly Eberron, but it could be done without most of the trappings that would make it explicitly so.
Anyway, just a thought.
- Coyote
Dhakaani is my all time favorite part of Eberron. I would love to see something with DDI and/or Dragon. The “Imperial Goblins” does sound like the option more likely to actually go through AND certainly attracts my interest.
Of course I would pay for an “Imperial Goblins” book of all fluff no crunch, but that’s me.
I like 4e and its tools and I personally would love to see more Dhakaani/Imperial Goblins. Perhaps we need to send some messages, texts, emails to Wizards saying we would like to see some Dhakaani/Darguun articles (yes I said articles as why ask for just one). Perhaps a collection like:
Part 1: Dhakaani past and Hooks/Locations for dungeons.
Part 2: Darguun
Part 3: …Class Act: Imperial Goblins
Just my two cents worth, when honestly I should be in bed.
Keith, have you considered contacting Turbine as a writer for DDO? I’d certainly like even more Eberron in my DDO and it could give you a way to get your ideas out with an Eberron stamp on them, potentially leaving the door open for a follow-up article in DDi when their schedule allows.
I’ve been following/playing/running Eberron since it’s release, it was the first setting I ever RPed in.
While a generalized document with subjects adaptable to Eberron sounds like a neat idea, and I would love to see it happen eventually, my curiosity is piqued with ‘something new’ from you.
can you give us a better idea what this something new would be? I don’t want to offend, but if it’s something like ‘Sahuagin underwater sea adventures’ I might be inclined to cast my vote in the generic Eberron billet box.
Honestly, I’d like to see a new non-Eberron setting, considering the kind of restraints that WOTC places on publishing material about their settings. A new setting would provide people the ability to see world-building in action by one of the pros, and not have to worry about watered-down material that is already available in the old Dragonshards articles. A Brand X Eberron just wouldn’t be able to go into the kind of detail I enjoy from combining all my resources on the setting. My recommendation is that this blog should be used for a completely new, totally shiny campaign setting.
I’d definitely throw in money for something new, that’s my vote.
Throwing my two cents in I’d love to see something new come from you Keith. While Eberron is my *favorite* rpg setting of all time, I have plenty of material from the 3.5 era to keep my campaign going for years to come. That said I want to see what’s the next cool setting you have up your sleeve. Is it a bit more sci-fi? Horror? High fantasy? I don’t care as long as we can all go along for the ride. And as long as you control it 100% and its extra awesome my wife and I will bring you a guild shirt from our Eberron campaign at next GenCon. Promise.
Thanks, Phil!
This came up in the Wizards GenCon Podcast but it could also be an interesting opportunity for you, Keith.
How about a .pdf with a lot of different (eberron-related?) Skill-Challenges?
Something like “Through the desert”, “navigating the battlefield”, “Flying the Airship”.
I gotta concur with someone’s earlier post that all the little extra flavor of the people and the world is great. One of the most fun my gaming group has had with Pathfinder was the list of slang used in Riddleport that was included in the Player’s Guide to their Second Darkness Adventure Path. Some system-independent extra material like that for Eberron would be great.
Eberron in spaaaace!
I’m still working on cornering the dragonshard market, but it’s real tough trying to figure out what “Shardspace” looks like (I know it has 13 planets but one hasn’t been discovered yet). Does the Astral Sea exist just above Eberron’s atmosphere..? I still haven’t given up on my idea of a 1960s style space race between the five nations, but it’d really help to know what’s up there.
Can I second to vote for you moving to Paizo?
Another vote here for “Generic Eberron” I am always on the lookout for details to add depth to my campaigns that I run in Eberron.
I’d love to see the Eberron material explored in more detail, even if it is in a “generic” fashion. That would be fantastic.
I think what you’ve created with Eberron is amazing, and it would be great to see more of it. I was always waiting for the next dragonshard article. But it does seem that your hands are tied by WotC; I think what I want is exactly what they’d restrict.
OmnipotentSeal said that a “new setting would provide people the ability to see world-building in action by one of the pros” and that got me thinking. One of the coolest things that your nemesis Rich Berlew has on his site (comic aside) is his world-building and DMing advice. And one of the things I love the most about Eberron is your -approach- to game design. How you fit everything in, made the world reflect the rules, and so forth.
I’d like to see a campaign setting built, step-by-step, the way Rich does. But with the Keith Baker approach. As awesome as Eberron is, it was created with WotC in mind. Now you should show us how you’d create a world for a smaller audience. Would you start big (with the cosmology and deities) or small (with the home village)? Or with both and fill in the middle along the way? How do you develop gods? Create custom prestige classes? Cities? Races?
Do what Rich did, just better! And keep adding to it!